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  Topic: Are Dropouts a common problem? (30 replies)
#11     Tue May 22, 2007 5:52 pm
W7RJR
Spokane, WA
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 114
Subject: Droputs

I am running a packet analyzer in the background while monitoring CQ100 activity.

I discovered that the TCP/IP data stream from QSONET was being interrupted by a variety of things, one of which was UPNP searching for new network devices. When normal communicaton resumed an error was noted that the previous IP segment had been lost. This would most likely represent what I call a dropout.

You may want to try disabling UPNP to see if it
helps?

Feedback is appreciated.


73
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#12     Wed May 23, 2007 11:11 am
VE3EFC
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 724
Subject:

Hi Bob. Very interesting. I heard that some instant messengers send UPNP commands to your router to attempt to open port forwarding. They are attemptng to re-configure your router by remote control. Try closing all other programs one at a time until your find what program is sending these UPNP commands. I would be curious to know what program is doing this.

Did you try disabling your UPNP service?

73, Doug
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#13     Wed May 23, 2007 12:04 pm
W7RJR
Spokane, WA
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 114
Subject:

Hi Doug

I left the UPNP 'service' alone but disabled it at the router. Nothing to do with programs running here. That stops SSDP discovery service from running on demand and interrupting TCP/IP.

Anything that might cause the 'handshake' to be lost may cause this problem. This includes instant messenger, autoupdates, checking for email, weather applications, etc. These problems are not noticed when viewing webpages. They can become more obvious when watching streaming video or playing games online. Latency and TTL issues contribute to this.

This kind of confirms your suspicion that TCP/IP is more sensitive to this problem than UDP.

A few applications expect to see UPNP enabled.


73
Bob
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#14     Wed May 23, 2007 2:22 pm
VE3EFC
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 724
Subject:

Hi Bob. What make is your router?

Steve Gibson made a big fuss about UPNP a few years ago...
http://www.grc.com/unpnp/unpnp.htm

73, Doug
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#15     Wed May 23, 2007 4:50 pm
W7RJR
Spokane, WA
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 114
Subject:

Hey Doug

I don't think the problem is limited to UPNP.

After some extensive monitoring and discovery of hiccups with the packet analyzer I have been able to achieve a dropout free environment.
This was accomplished by terminating every running process that might access the internet. Some of these were mentioned, email, autoupdates, virus programs, CNN pipeline, weather applications, etc. I don't think it very practical for every user to do this. Some of these running processes are quite nebulous and not easily discovered. Among them are UPNP and SSDP.


The router here is a D-link DI-624.

73
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#16     Thu Jun 14, 2007 3:54 pm
KE7ELT
Laugh, Nevada U.S.A.
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 12
Subject: Dropouts

Hi Doug
thanks for your great product and thanks for all you hard work , i think most of the Problems are user problems and internet problems , if you
double with someone you will get droputs , if their is Noise in the DSL line you will have dropouts, ,it unfair Doug that you are being attacked this way , i live in an Apt complex and no outside antenas are allowed, this program solves my problem i have talked to hams whoare in asst Living communities and are brought to tears because they have a program that allows them to pursue their Hobby Doug i want to say God Bless you and thank you for this great program , People should just grow up and Enjoy it instead of being winers , i am computer savy and it a fact that nothing is perfect , and i want to say i have beena member for 2 months now and have had no problems , Just paid My 32 dollars its a great investment , doug thanks for your hard work i will not stand by and let any attack you

73s Rich KE7ELT
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#17     Thu Jun 14, 2007 6:06 pm
W7RJR
Spokane, WA
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 114
Subject: Re: Dropouts


KE7ELT wrote:
Hi Doug
" unfair Doug that you are being attacked this way" "will not stand by and let any attack you"


73s Rich KE7ELT


You can't be serious?

This is a discussion board. Some people bring forward what they consider legitimate concerns. Discussions often highlight differences in opinion. These differences do not constitute an 'attack' unless they become personal in nature.

The technical aspects of this have been well discussed. While I feel CQ100 is an 'EXCELLENT' program I also feel that the author's choice of TCP versus UDP exacerbates the dropout issue. VOIP programs that use UDP suffer far less from ordinary internet connectivity issues.
Here are a few links:

http://www.tek-tips.com/viewthread.cfm?qid=1160067&page=1
http://www.voipplanet.com/backgrounders/article.php/3495186
http://www.wand.net.nz/old/wand/publications/jamie_420/final/node6.html

I wonder if the author will consider offering a UDP version in the future?
Perhaps a choice to use one or the other?

The signal to noise ratio can adversely affect your internet connection; however, phone and cable companies are usually careful about checking line level(s) during installation. I doubt many folks suffer from that.

I sincerely doubt that the dropouts are the result of everyone having a bad internet connection. It is not possible to double with anyone on CQ100. This also prevents interference.

73
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#18     Thu Jun 14, 2007 8:56 pm
KE7ELT
Laugh, Nevada U.S.A.
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 12
Subject: RE:dropouts

what i said is that with a dsl connection if there is any noise in the line you mighht get a drop out and you can double if you try to key the same time as someone else , with cable Dsl and modems and routers any noise can cause a problem i Know cause i asked the Local cabale company and they said yes it does happen ,

Rich KE7ELT
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#19     Thu Jun 14, 2007 9:17 pm
W7RJR
Spokane, WA
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 114
Subject: Re: RE:dropouts


KE7ELT wrote:
"you mighht get a drop out and you can double if you try to key the same time as someone else"

Rich KE7ELT



Only one station can control the channel. When two stations attempt to access the channel at the same time, one wins the other loses. It's a duel :-)
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#20     Fri Jun 15, 2007 3:40 pm
KE7ELT
Laugh, Nevada U.S.A.
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 12
Subject:

Hi
W7RJR, i want to apologize if i offened you i did not mean tyo do so, what i eman about attacking is Doug gave a answer but no one is satisfied , it seems to me that the only answer doug can give is one that everyone thnks he should give , bottom line is you cant satisfy everyone all the time ,and Discussion is good , Ham radio is a brotherhood, again i apologize i hope we can takon cq100 one of thesedays

73s Rich
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