Archive
 
 
  Topic: Keyer trial (20 replies)
#1     Sat Jul 28, 2007 1:31 pm
K5LN
Round Rock, TX
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 3
Subject: Keyer trial

Hi Doug,

First, thank you for making the keyer for us that are not very good at the keyboard and who are experts at using the backspace key more the all the other keys combined.

The keyer idea is a great thing, if you don't mind I have a few comments after trying it out.

Set up:
- Dell Inspiron Laptop E1505 with only USB ports.
- Using a RS232 to USB cable.
- Bencher Paddle (Gold contacts)
- PK3 Keyer with Reed Relay contact output.
- O/S = Windows XP Pro.
- Office 2003 suite

1 - While hooked to the direct paddle mode B keyer, when sending CW the tone is very nice and the keyer started out nice and clean. Then I started to get scratching when the characters were sent. The more I sent the worse the scratching got.

I thought that the scratching was caused by dirty paddle contacts so I went and cleaned them off. My Bencher has Gold contacts so after cleaning those off there should not be a problem with scratching, but there was.

2 - Well I continued and now changed to a keyer who has an enclosed reed relay and this should not have the scratching, but it did. So now I am stumped.

So I re-checked my settings and they were:
Haware - SigmaTel Audio
Driver - Windows WDM-KS
Latency - Auto
Speed - 20 WPM
Pitch - 570 HZ
Amplitude - 19%
Serial Port - COM6
Serial Port setting - A = DSR (Pin6), B = CTS (Pin8)
Key Mode:
- First with Mode set to Iambic B with Paddle connected directly
- Second using the Keyer with the Mode set to Stright Key

If you feel that the "ASIO4All" driver is better, or if there is anything else you think of that I can try, please let me know and I will be happy to do it. You can contact me directly at k5ln@austin.rr.com

Conclusion:
Then I was thinking maybe it is the switching in the RS232 line and if in the keyer design of the Software that it included a bounce routine to cut off the line bounce? Just a thought and I may be way out of the ball park. But I remember in the past, that there were bounce routines required in the software for the inputs to the serial port lines because of contact switching bounce.

Well there are my comments and I hope you receive other comments on some resolutions on what I may do on my end to resolve this scratching, or which ever end it is on.

So for one that is not good at the keyboard but has learned how to use the paddle, thank you very much for working on an alternative to use CW without all the noise and conditions on the standard HF radio bands.

If there is anything else you think of that I can try please let me know.

Please keep up the great work it is really appreciated.

Tnx,
Bill, K5LN
__________________
#2     Sat Jul 28, 2007 4:13 pm
VE3EFC
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 724
Subject:

Hi Bill.

Many thanks for testing. We never encountered this scratching problem in any of our tests. We will be scratching our heads to try to guess the cause :)

Maybe try putting the Amplitude up to 80%, so there will be more room on the envelope for the program to perform the shaping. We never tested with the Amplitude as low as you set it.

Also, try experimenting with the Latency settings as non-auto. Try 1, 5, 10, 20, 50. With some computers the audio goes nuts if the latency is too low. High speed keying becomes difficult if the latency is too high.

Also, try moving the USB plug to a different hole if possible.

This system is designed to work directly off the paddle contacts. I guess it should work ok if relays are used. But I know it will not work with transistor switching.

Maybe we need to build a software debounce to handle bad paddle contacts or bouncing relays. But its funny you say it starts ok then the problem slowly increases. We tested a relay paddle and a straight paddle on 5 computers and there was no hint of this problem. Are any other programs using your sound card at the same time? Try closing all other programs.

Did you hear the scratching with mode set to MME and Direct Sound?

We have found that WDM-KS is just as good as ASIO, and the Asio4All can cause problems with some sound cards on some computers.

Be sure "What you Hear" or "Stereo Mix" is not selected on the Windows Sliders, because the keying will me played twice at different timing, and the timing will drift off the more you play.

If you have a USB headset, it will appear as another sound card in the hardware pick list, so the SigmaTel can be eliminated as the cause.

73, Doug
__________________
#3     Sun Jul 29, 2007 2:54 pm
K5LN
Round Rock, TX
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 3
Subject:

Hi Doug,

Thank you for looking at my situation.

Before I comment, let me tell you what I did after I send the email.

I loaded the "ASIO4All" and select it for the sound card driver and everything worked okay when using the paddle direct to my USB to RS232 cable in the Iambic B mode.

I found that most people using CQ100 are trying to copy CW using SW programs and are not able to copy code directly (its an interesting situation).

I will go ahead and try the different recommendations and reply back directly to each recommendation as I try them.

Maybe adding you recommendations about the quote below would be good to add to the manual for initial setup notes.

Be sure "What you Hear" or "Stereo Mix" is not selected on the Windows Sliders, because the keying will be played twice at different timing, and the timing will drift off the more you play.

If you have a USB headset, it will appear as another sound card in the hardware pick list, so the SigmaTel can be eliminated as the cause.

Ill get back to you as soon as I can. Thanks again.

Tnx,
Bill, K5LN
__________________
#4     Thu Aug 02, 2007 11:42 pm
WB0WLS
Grand Island NE -- Let's work some CW -- CW, music to a ham's ears
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 105
Subject:

Any experiences with the new keyer to share?????

I have the serial to USB cable but don't have the paddle cable wired in yet.

I haven't actually heard anyone using it yet?

Sure would like to hear how it's going for those of you that have it up and running?
__________________
#5     Tue Aug 07, 2007 6:39 pm
WB0WLS
Grand Island NE -- Let's work some CW -- CW, music to a ham's ears
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 105
Subject:

Today I have my Bencher paddles wired for the new keyer program. We tested it on my laptop and the desktop computer of the ham across town that wired everything up... he is an expert on computers and an expert with the soldering iron.

I'm using a USB to serial cable and we installed the software that came with and assinged a COM port.

He wire a female DB9 adaptor to go into the serial end of the USB/serial cable. the other end of the female adapter runs to the bencher.

All "fired up" just fine. But the dits and dahs are erratic. The DAH side is the worst. Much of the time, the dah side will start with a DIT.

I've tried the "Windows Direct Sound" and "Windows WDM-KS" drivers and they both seem to be the same as far as the way the keyer performs.

I haven't tried to download the ASIO driver.... Doug... would that actually correct this problem??

any ideas ???????????????

thanks... rich
__________________
#6     Tue Aug 07, 2007 7:30 pm
WB0WLS
Grand Island NE -- Let's work some CW -- CW, music to a ham's ears
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 105
Subject:

The only thing I can make work is to use my bencher paddle (on side) as a straight key and set the keyer settings on "straight key". So that is a start... although I don't know how good it really sounds on the receiving station's end. It sounds good and if I look at shapes of the characters on CwGet as I type, they have a perfect shape.... BUT, we all know that on the other end, after the internet has delt with it, the characters are sometimes broken, etc. So I have no idea how well it is coming accross to other stations.

Doug, do you think that ASIO driver would actually correct the problem of a dit happening before the dah when I only hit the dah paddle ?? Very strange.
__________________
#7     Tue Aug 07, 2007 9:45 pm
WB0WLS
Grand Island NE -- Let's work some CW -- CW, music to a ham's ears
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 105
Subject:

I downloaded the "ASIO4All" program but not sure what to do with it now to make it work with the dahditdah software or my sound card, etc.

I'm guessing it may not have any bearing on my problem of getting a dit infront of my dahs.
__________________
#8     Wed Aug 08, 2007 8:49 am
WB0WLS
Grand Island NE -- Let's work some CW -- CW, music to a ham's ears
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 105
Subject:

After an "all nite" of experimenting and playing around I found another CW (software) keyer that gives me the same results.... on the dah paddle, it makes a dit first and then starts sending dahs... not all the time, but most of the time. Likewise on the dit paddle, it will first send a dah... again not all the time, but most of the time. This keyer is named EhoCW. There must be some little quirk that causes this keyer and the dahditdah keyer to react the same.

BUT, while using CWCOMM.... that keyer worked fine with my bencher. No surprise dits or dahs on the wrong side.

hmmmmmmmmmmmmm
__________________
#9     Wed Aug 08, 2007 2:00 pm
VE3EFC
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 724
Subject:

Hi Rich,

Thanks for all this information. I recently heard there are some versions of the AMD dual core processor chip that have a hardware bug that shows up only on programs which use the high priority timer. Not many programs use this feature, but we do, and maybe EhoCW does too.

There is a windows patch available for this AMD problem.

Do you know what processor chip your system is using?

Did you try increasing the Latency setting?

73, Doug
__________________
#10     Wed Aug 08, 2007 4:57 pm
WB0WLS
Grand Island NE -- Let's work some CW -- CW, music to a ham's ears
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 105
Subject:

Hi Doug .... it is Intel Core Duo processor 1.66/1.83/2/2.16GHz, 2MB L2cashe, 667Mhz FSB

I have no idea what some of that means.

The computer is an Acer laptop TravelMate 4220

Yes, I tried all kinds of settings on the latency.... nothing made any difference. Like I said the "funny" dit and dah placement is just random but often.

The "odd" dit or dah only happens at the very beginning of a character. It doesn't happen in the middle... on at the start. I can hold the dah down for a minute and the only dit happens at the beginning.

Hope that makes sense or helps.

rich
__________________




Copyright ©2013 Cormac Technologies Inc.